The Story Of Jesus Probably IS A Legend

"How can we be sure that the story of Jesus wasn’t changed over time? How do we know that the virgin conception, the miracles, and the Resurrection weren’t added to the story late? J. Warner Wallace talks about the nature of evidence tampering in this video, excerpted from his interview with Lee Strobel at a Sunday morning service at Woodlands Church in Woodlands, Texas."

The 18-min video below clarifies the issue and debunked the major apologetic FOR the Jesus of the Bible.

Click on the link below:

Why We Know the Story of Jesus Isn't a Legend (Cold Case Christianity Response) Debunked

Whataboutism and Christianity

"Some of the terms we use to describe political rhetoric are as old as politics itself (see ad hominem attacks, or such devices as synecdoche, metonymy, or zeugma). Others are more recent additions, driven by the evolution of the news cycle (like fake news and dog whistles).

"But hey, aren’t we ignoring a bigger subject here? How can we talk about rhetorical devices and not mention whataboutism?

" - - - it’s essentially a reversal of accusation, arguing that an opponent is guilty of an offense just as egregious or worse than what the original party was accused of doing, however unconnected the offenses may be.

" - - - Rhetoricians generally consider it to be a form of tu quoque, which means "you too" in Latin and involves charging your accuser with whatever it is you've just been accused of rather than refuting the truth of the accusation made against you. Tu quoque is considered to be a logical fallacy because whether or not the original accuser is likewise guilty of an offense has no bearing on the truth value of the original accusation." (link)

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Why am I discussing this term? Christian apologists throw it at skeptics when discussing the reliability of the Bible as a historical source. Here is a link comparing the evidence of the Jesus in the Bible and other ancient historical individuals. Please remember that there are no primary sources in support of the Bible as history. When you add in the supernatural claims, the bar is high indeed for acceptance of the Bible as history.

Historical Methods And The New Testament (Summary)

Christian apologists continue to support the New Testament as a trustworthy historical document, in spite of the following:

• The uncorroborated (* by contemporary extra-biblical sources) stories in the New Testament were written decades after the supposed events by unknown authors who did not claim to be eyewitnesses (Paul had "visions" only). In other words, they are not Primary Sources, which is the "Gold Standard" in historical methods:  "Primary sources are the evidence of history, original records or objects created by participants or observers at the time historical events occurred or even well after events, as in memoirs and oral histories. Primary sources may include but are not limited to: letters, manuscripts, diaries, journals, newspapers, maps, speeches, interviews, documents produced by government agencies, photographs, audio or video recordings, born-digital items (e.g. emails), research data, and objects or artifacts (such as works of art or ancient roads, buildings, tools, and weapons). These sources serve as the raw materials historians use to interpret and analyze the past."
• The stories contain magic, miracles, ghosts, angels, and demons (link). They are implausible, incoherent, and inconsistent (link). Extraordinary claims DO require extraordinary evidence (link).

(*NOTE: ALL extra-biblical sources were written several decades after the supposed Jesus and only talk about Christians and what THEY said about Jesus. They do not testify to a historical Jesus of the New Testament.)

Why accept it as historical?

The Bible Story Is All They Have

"Christians love telling each other about how really reliable secular historians like Josephus and Tacitus wrote about Jesus. The implication is that these references serve as some kind of proof not only for Jesus' existence but for his resurrection, miracles, and godhood. But what do they actually say? What if anything do they prove? In this video, I take a look at an article that typifies how Christians approach ancient non-Biblical references to Jesus - along with looking at what these sources state, when they were written, and if they add up to good evidence for Jesus.
"SPOILER ALERT: They don't."

Click on the link below for a continuation of the revelation (pun intended) of how vapid Christian apologetics is. Sadly, these facts will not penetrate the delusion and dogma of those who are dependent on false claims for their living.

Secular historians are not helpful to Christianity

The Bible And The Telephone Game

Most of us played the Telephone Game as children. It caused laughter, for sure. However, this article goes into the psychology of it and how it exposes the flaws in our emotional intelligence. Understanding this phenomenon is important in understanding why secular historians and others using science-based thinking cast serious doubt on the reliability of the Bible. Why? It is the consensus of Biblical scholars, religious and secular, that the writings found in the New Testament were created decades after the supposed events. The video below goes into detail on the matter:

Were the Stories of Jesus Corrupted Before they were Written Down? (Click on the link)

Don't Strawman Mythicism

I am agnostic regarding the question of a historical Jesus. However, I lean toward accepting that there was no historical Jesus and I do accept that the stories about Jesus as found in the New Testament are probably myths.

That said, I find that Biblical scholars, whether Christian or atheist, who don't accept the claim that there probably was not a historical Jesus frequently use the Strawman Fallacy.  The following videos are excellent in clarifying the evidence behind the claim that Jesus was probably not a real person.

Mystery Faith (Part 1 of 2) - Richard Carrier

Mystery Faith (Part 2 of 2) - David Fitzgerald

Pondering Parallels and Mythicism - Robert M Price

Following are other links looking at this issue:

There are clearly good reasons to doubt Jesus’ historical existence

Christ Myth Theory

Did Jesus Exist?

Debunking the Historical Jesus

The Crazy Facts You Didn't Know About the History of Christianity

There IS A Proper Way To Do History

Among Richard Carrier's skills is the ability to communicate what is involved with the Historical Method:

• "Historical method is the collection of techniques and guidelines that historians use to research and write histories of the past. Primary sources and other evidence including those from archaeology are used.

• "In the philosophy of history, the question of the nature, and the possibility, of a sound historical method is raised within the sub-field of epistemology. The study of historical method and of different ways of writing history is known as historiography."

This hour-long presentation delves into the subject in a logical and understandable manner:

Miracles and Historical Method
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NOTE: John W Loftus, an atheist author who has earned three master’s degrees from Lincoln Christian Seminary and Trinity Evangelical Divinity School. Loftus, a former student of noted Christian apologist William Lane Craig, got some of the biggest names in the field to contribute to this book, which represents a critical analysis of the very idea of miracles.

Christians: Would You Accept This Story If It Wasn't About Jesus?

The New Testament is a collection of stories, many of which contradict each other, about a man names Jesus. It was written decades after the supposed events of his life and include many situations that have been directly falsified by science or violate known reality, especially the resurrection stories. In addition, there are no non-christian, contemporary writings in support of any of the stories. Now, if this situation was regarding any other collection of writings, would you accept them as telling a valid story? I wouldn’t.

The Historicity of Jesus

The burden is on those who argue there was an historical Jesus. Those who make a claim are obligated to support it with sufficient evidence. There may have been an historical Jesus, however, I have not seen sufficient evidence for me to accept the claim.  (I, like Hector Avalos, am agnostic on this question.)   http://amestrib.com/sections/opinion/columns/hector-avalos-who-was-the-historical-jesus.html

An Honest Way for Christians to Separate Fact From Fiction

"What objective procedure can Christians have that will show Christianity as the only valid religion? I can imagine none."

The goal should be finding the truth, not supporting a predefined conclusion.

How History Views Claims Of The Supernatural And The Paranormal

Many criticize atheists for calling the Bible a work of fiction.  History functions like science:  nothing can be accepted as history that violates known reality.  Thus, if a significant part of a book (The Bible) contains significant portrayals of supernatural and paranormal events, isn't it reasonable to classify it as fiction?  It does not qualify as non-fiction, thus, - - -

History and the paranormal

Theists Should Not Use History To Support Their Claims

This shatters the Christian apologist's argument from history.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/crossexamined/2015/02/how-do-you-decide-what-to-believe-lessings-ditch/

Biblical Historians Do Not Play By The Same Rules As Other Historians

Apologists talk about the evidence for Christianity. Following are quotes that clearly show that what apologists call evidence and primary sources in support of Christianity is not what non-biblical historians call such:

“Biblical historians often use the term “primary sources” when referring to the Gospels or Epistles of Paul. Non-biblical historians refer to such sources as “secondary sources” because they are not contemporary with Jesus or written by eyewitnesses. Virtually all written sources regarding Jesus are “secondary sources”. To most non-biblical historians, “primary sources” refers to evidence physically situated in the time and place under investigation.”